Comments on ~Enola~: What is SEEN versus what IS

I think you're doing good work. You mentioned this...

2008-07-24T22:05:00.000-05:00

I think you're doing good work. You mentioned this post has been long in the writing, and I'm sure part of that has been your effort to be as fair and accurate as possible. I'm glad that you have this space as well as your therapist and your IRL friends for the venting and self-care you need, so that these ongoing frustrations have some outlet.

Angel – I read your post first and the red devil p...

2008-07-24T19:55:00.000-05:00

Angel – I read your post first and the red devil popped out and I felt angry – not at what you said but because I hadn’t thought that the little green monster of jealousy could be causing any of this. That required some thought. (your part about my being angry at myself for turning down the deacon nomination is what I’m speaking of). I don’t regret at all turning that down – but I do have some jealousy about other areas of where I have cut back. (see my Friday post for more info)

Beauty – I have stopped reminding him of things. We have a huge calendar on our wall – it’s even color-coded. I’m leaving his remembering things to him now.

About counseling – I can’t even imagine adding in time for a joint session right now. But if things get worse I will make the time.

MirroredGrace – I think a lot of your situation may influence the way you perceive things – that’s true for everyone. I really don’t see my husband walking out on me. He finds it very difficult to make decisions or take initiative. I am a domestic attorney and have certainly seen my share of couples that swore they’d never end up in a separation, only to find themselves there. So maybe I’m overly-cocky, but I really don’t see him every having the “guts” to leave. He and I have been in joint (and individual) counseling and if we find ourselves re-hashing the same things over and over, we don’t hestitate to go back. I do try to vent here first because I recognize that (1) being off medications and (2) pregnant do make me a bit hormonal – by venting here and sorting things out, I am far more rational when I do discuss things with DH. I’ve been in counseling for over 2 years now. Not saying I’m perfect (far from it) but I do think I have a pretty good grip on where my issues are (I actually tend to take on all fault in relationships so moving toward seeing him as responsible for some things is a good step), and a good understanding of what issues still need addressing. Oh and I’ve read all of O’Martian’s “praying” books – they are quite good.

Keepers – yes, this is not a one-time behavior. He does continue to do a lot of the same things. (I’ll address this more in my Friday post)

Dear EnolaBy your words it is obvious these are no...

2008-07-24T19:52:00.000-05:00

Dear Enola

By your words it is obvious these are not every once in a while antics but all the time regular behavior, we feel for you!! We sure wish we had some great advice for you but right now all we can do is send hugs and let you know we are thinking of you.

peace and blessings

Keepers

Enola,That is a lot to deal with. My heart hurts ...

2008-07-24T18:57:00.000-05:00

Enola,

That is a lot to deal with. My heart hurts for you.

(((((Hugs)))))

At the risK of being banned for life, I must defen...

2008-07-24T18:32:00.000-05:00

At the risK of being banned for life, I must defend myself on one point. I did not say that praying more was going to solve the issue. I would not think to insult anyone's intelligence in such a manner.

Angel, I will take this off-line and send you an email that might perhaps better explain what I meant, since I wasn't coming from where you landed with my comment. Maybe we can dialog?

Truly, I am not trying to start any fights, that is why I would rather email.

Enola, I really meant no offense, and I know what you are going through. I know the counseling and all will go long long ways. I didn't intend at all to minimize or trivialize you at all. I too have been down the same counseling and medication paths, so I do know something of what I am talking about.

Or you can delete me, whichever you feel is best.

I am sorry.

...I didn't hear screaming. Did DH take on the cl...

2008-07-24T14:16:00.000-05:00

...I didn't hear screaming. Did DH take on the class? ;)

P.S. How are you doing today?

I totally agree with you Angel. You are very eloq...

2008-07-24T13:07:00.000-05:00

I totally agree with you Angel.

You are very eloquent you know and say wise and well thought out things.

I hope you are doing ok Enola.

{{{{hugs}}}}

mg, you say that you've been reading this blog for...

2008-07-24T11:05:00.000-05:00

mg, you say that you've been reading this blog for a while, so you know Enola is in counseling. She is working on her issues and doing her best to be the best mother, wife, daughter-in-law, Sunday School teacher, etc she can be. She also already beats herself up way too much, which she doesn't deserve--something else you should know about her if you've read her blog.

Working on your issues requires more than prayer. If it were that easy, she would have no issues left. She is doing the inner work through counseling and using this blog as a vent. We get to hear the anger and frustration because she doesn't have many places where she can freely express herself like that. Just like IRL friends, we hear the kvetching and moaning but not always the good. We hear the things that bother her. Trying to scare her and telling her to pray more aren't going to resolve the issues she is facing. I'm sure you posted because you don't want anyone else to suffer the horrible pain of being left while pregnant like you were. You may want her to realize how lucky you might think she is that her husband hasn't left her yet, because yours did. But for someone to walk (or run) away from their children like yours did....there either was more to your marriage's demise than what is going on with Enola or there was far less to your husband than you give him credit for. Her husband would not just walk away from his children--and I don't think his parents would let him, even if for some reason he wanted to! ;)

I'm not trying to sound harsh, but Enola is not you. Humans are humans so we all have some similarities in our interactions, but it takes a certain extreme dynamic between two particular people to recreate your incredibly painful situation. I hope you are in counseling to work through your issues (versus bottling them up) and to help you accept your situation and its eventual outcome.

Enola, What I am going to say might not come acros...

2008-07-23T22:28:00.000-05:00

Enola,

What I am going to say might not come across the right way, but please, please hear me. Read it a couple of times, if it seems "off".

You remind me very very much of myself, and your husband is much like mine. Seriously, I could write just about any of your posts regarding marriage, kids, pregnancy, all of it (with the exception of the evil Toilet. My stepdad is cool).

When I was 6 months pregnant with our daughter, and our son was 1 1/2, my husband walked out. Gone. Haven't heard his voice in over two years. Son is now 5, daughter is 3.

Believe me when I say "YOU DO NOT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN TO YOU IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM".

My husband used to drive me nuts - he would make the same dumb comments, come up behind me when I was washing dishes, being playful, but it infuriated me. He did not process it the same way that I did. He was being loving in his way. I didn't like it, and there fore would be in a mood, and not in THE mood, and he would get upset and frustrated too. Sound familiar?

We were caught in a downward spiral of irritating, upsetting, and aggravating each other. He walked out because he truly truly thought that I didn't love him because I was being such an ass. Not that he is blameless here, because he isn't, but I shoulder my share.

You haven't lived until you have two kids who cry for Daddy every single day. Not to mention the tears that flow from yourself.

Now, I do believe that the LORD is going to work everything out (we are not divorced - I won't do it & he doesn't have the $$ to). But this has got to be the longest 3 years of my life.

I understand if you want to blast me into next week. But I have been reading your blog for quite a while now, and I see the same thing happening over and over, and I am so scared for you, because I see the EXACT same situations that have put me where I am today.

I know how you struggle - I have been there. But, the day he left, is the day that I fell to my knees, begging God to help me. And the things that I have been taught about myself haven't been pretty - downright ugly.

My prayer for you is that you can work through those things in yourself BEFORE one of you reaches that point. I know your husband is a jerk - he is human. By definition, then, since you are human, you too have the tendency to be a jerk. We all do - humans suck. Sad but true.

Please, please, I am begging you. Take a long hard look at you and see what you can fix. It will go miles & miles toward the goal of a great family.

I heartily recommend Stormie Omartian's book "The Power of a Praying Wife". There are a couple of gut punches in there, but I'm telling you, it is worth it. I am studying up for when my husband comes home, so that I can be more of the person & the wife that God intended for me to be.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I am so scared for you. I wouldn't say anything, except I had a marriage like yours, and now I don't. What I wouldn't give for him to hog all the covers in bed tonight.

With Much Love,
MirroredGrace

Wow.{{{hugs}}}

2008-07-23T14:23:00.000-05:00

Wow.

{{{hugs}}}

Big (((hugs))). Sounds way too familiar. I would...

2008-07-23T13:59:00.000-05:00

Big (((hugs))). Sounds way too familiar. I would also suggest bringing this to counseling--especially if you guys are getting marriage counseling.

Oh, Enola - I just wanted to give you a hug after ...

2008-07-23T13:09:00.000-05:00

Oh, Enola - I just wanted to give you a hug after reading this. I'm so sorry!!

Would you feel comfortable taking this to your T and then (maybe) discussing it with her and your DH in a session? Because it sounds like your DH doesn't choose to treat you and his child (soon to be children) with the same respect he treats others (or himself), and you deserve better than that....

I was once married to someone like this. In public...

2008-07-23T10:17:00.000-05:00

I was once married to someone like this. In public he was the life of the party, charismatic, generous to a fault, etc. Everyone thought he was fantastic. He'd invite people over on the spur of the moment and throw together huge dinners. What they didn't know is that he was writing bad checks to pay for these elaborate meals because he had no self control with money. He wouldn't even be able to make the mortgage payment because of his generosity to others, and still he'd write a bad check so he could impress everyone and be a hero.

When we moved across country to the state where he grew up, we were constantly being invited to dinners, parties, etc. by his family and friends. Often I couldn't go because of my health. He never bothered to tell anyone that's why I was absent, he just let everyone assume I wasn't trying to be friendly or to fit in! I think we lived there nearly a year before I realized he was doing this. By then the damage had been done: no one cared anymore whether or not I made an appearance. They were all convinced I was stuck up.

I hope this is something the two of you can iron out over time. I wish I had some advice, but I don't. I do agree with Angel that if he can't remember on his own about the Men's Breakfast, it doesn't have top priority with him. People usually remember to do what's important to them. I mean, he doesn't forget about his hunting trips, does he? So he is capable of remembering what he wants to.

Wow. There is a lot there, Enola. I'm going to h...

2008-07-23T08:43:00.000-05:00

Wow. There is a lot there, Enola. I'm going to have to limit myself to commenting on the first situation right now. The men's breakfast is apparently not important enough to him to remember or to bother getting up in time, so I wouldn't bother reminding him. If he's missed it for 6 months and it hasn't bothered him enough to change, then it doesn't b other him.

Why does it not bother him? Because he is going to blame it on you. That to me is bad--especially the active lying about saying you won't let him do something--so I am going to have to think about it. Obviously he has problems telling people how he really feels and in saying, "No." That is a problem of his, that he is going to have to want to work on if he is going to change. And it doesn't sound like he has any sense that it is a problem.

If he is going to feel it's a problem, you may have to require a joint counseling session about it. You have very valid points that, basically, are about his character and will require him to do some introspection. It isn't going to be a quick fix.

He is so concerned about what is fair, but it sounds like you really need to call him on the going to work functions thing. It reads like you are allowing him to set what he determines is fair, but it also reads like he needs to be told how it isn't fair, despite his preconceived notion and claim.

As far as you turning down the deacon nomination for 3 years because you knew it would cause problems with his ego, that is equivalent to a woman dumbing herself down to keep her husband happy. You're very intelligent so you are probably angry with yourself for doing it, and rightfully so. But I'm not sure that bringing it up at the beginning of a counseling venture re this (because it isn't going to be a one-session topic, probably) is going to be productive. Choose the most important/frustrating one or two points and address those. Otherwise he is going to feel like he has been attacked with both barrels and, while he may deserve it, he is going to have to get over the pouting before he can do any real work. (That assumes that he is interested in doing any real work.)

Maybe you could tell him that this past anniversary weekend was so good that it reminded you of how good you two can be together. So you want to improve other areas of your life together that have not been "good" so that they can become a more positive experience for both of you. For you to feel less anger/responsibility/etc towards him because of his agreeing to take on too much and his lack of follow-through and for him to stop feeling the need to blame you for his lack of follow-through. Religion clearly has an important place in your life and you would like to be able to enjoy it, instead of walking around hearing how you are keeping him from following through, etc. Right now it sounds like it is just multiplying exponentially your responsibilities, something you really don't need.

What is the worst that can happen if your h continues to not follow through on his obligations? People realize that he is irresponsible. Yes, that will affect your reputation somewhat, but they apparently know that you are more reliable since you were nominated 3 years before him. It's possible that someone finally realized that, if they wanted to get you, they would have to placate his ego and ask him; he may well be a "fluff" nomination. Yes, he's friendly and outgoing, but he wasn't their first choice.